What do you think of Rev. Jim

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

[TRANSFERED FROM THE ARCHIVES OF THE OLD FORUM]


THIS THREAD STARTED BY:
Georgiaboy
1/3/2003 2:55 AM

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Here is something written to me by Rev. Jim because i had a different opinion from him. I was wondering what you thought about his response, i would love to hear what you think. The first part is the message what i wrote. And then following it is his response.

"Hi. I would like to let you know that i didnt mean to stir up any trouble only discussion. I would also like to clarify myself. First of all i have read the bible. what i said is not what i have been "brainwashed" into believing but what i believe from my research of the bible on this subject. Romans 1:26-27 is proof of what i feel. I know of several other places where this is stated in the bible but i wont bother to mention them because i am sure you know them. Also a book that further explains how i feel is The Bondage Breaker by Neil T. Anderson. It talks about how the devil and his demons put the thoughts i have about guys in head to tempt me in the sameway he uses alcohol to tempt some people into alcoholism. Another thing i must mention is that i dont feel that being gay is wrong and if i gave you that impression i am sorry. I feel that if anyone has lustful thoughts then they have sinned and i believe if someone acts on homosexuals feelings then they have sinned. I also believe that if a person says they are homesexual but do not act on it they have not commited a sin. I also believe that my salvation is very much intact i will be spending eternity in heaven someday after i die, just like all the other true christians in your group no matter what i or they did on earth. Another thing is i have spent alot of time researching this issue with the help of my campus minister, and several strong christian friends and i dont appricieate you calling them nazi bigots. They are far from bigots they have shown me nothing but love and support in my struggle with these feelings i have. Never once have they said anything to me that would make them even remotely like a "nazi bigot". Whatever you may think of my message is fine with me cause you have the right to believe whatever you want to believe. I hope you would at least take the time to listen to mine as i have to yours. And remember this is me and not someone else's message and that i struggle with the same things as you, i just hope to find victory in this area of my life by turning it over to God. Thanks for listening. A brother in Christ."

Here is his repsonse.

"Do you know how many people join my group and start
> saying anti-gay lies, and then when they are kicked
> out they start giving me the lame excuse that they
> came here looking for answers? Well, you're about
> the 50th person to do so. If you truly came to my
> group looking for answers, then the first post from
> you would not have been words of judgment against
> homosexulity. In fact, NOT ONCE did you say any of the
> things which you are now telling me in this recent
> letter to me. You came charging into the group,
> telling us all that being gay is against God. People
> who are hurting from the church's hatered towards
> them for being gay come into this group looking for
> some sense of comfort and shelter. If I were to let
> you stay in this group and let you continue saying
> mean things, it would be like making a rape victim
> sit in the same room with her rapist. I have
> personally had to help talk three people out of
> killing themselves because they couldn't handle the
> hatred anymore that comes from the bigots in the
> church. We don't need someone like you, who only
> wants to hurt others, to come in to the group and
> start saying vicious things like what you said
> before. This group is for people who want to GET
> AWAY from people like you who want to hurt them.
> Now, if you have decided to believe the gay bashers
> in the church and their twisted interpretation of
> Scripture, then be my guest. But I will not let them
> OR YOU try to brainwash us with lies, as they have
> done to you. The information that I gave on my
> website about the Bible verses was the truth. I went
> over the verses WORD FOR WORD. But the church
> ignores important words in the verses, and then they
> re-interpret the verses to suit their personal point
> of view. They are LIARS. If you dont want to believe
> what I wrote then go ahead and believe the lies of
> the homophobes in the church and pretend to be
> straight; and after you get married to some woman
> and have kids and realize 20 years from now that you
> really ARE gay and that your entire marriage has
> been a lie, and when you destroy your wife's life
> and the lives of your children - as THOUSANDS of gay
> men have done because they have believed the bigots
> in the church - then I'll be here to tell you "I
> told you so".
> Furthermore, you say that you dont believe that
> Jesus would have "attacked a believer" the way you
> think I did to you, and I am asuming that you are
> referring to my last letter. Obviously you haven't
> read the Gospels, because that is EXACTLY what
> Jesus would have done to religious hypocrites like
> you. You are just like the other gay bashers in the
> church! They do the exact same thing. You came into
> my group and start shouting your hellfire and
> brimstone message against gays, and then when I
> responded, you suddenly start acting like YOU'RE the
> one being persecuted! You've got a lot of nerve.
> Look, I don't hate you. I'm not even angry with you.
> And I am VERY VERY happy to hear that you have
> believed in Jesus Christ as a new Christian. But I
> am fed up with hearing the same old lies that you
> are now telling about homosexuality, and I will NOT
> tolerate it in my life, or in my web group. Who ever
> it was who taught you that what you said is right,
> that teacher should be whipped the same way that
> Jesus whipped the money changers in the temple. If
> you only KNEW how many gays and lebians I have
> counselled who have been deeply wounded and
> destroyed by the church which keeps shouting the
> message you gave us. Do you know how many parents
> I've had to comfort because their son or daughter
> has turned to drugs or alcohol because the church
> has convinced them that WHO THEY ARE as a gay person
> is a sin and they cant stop being gay so they drown
> out the hatred they now feel for themselves in drugs
> and alcohol or by taking their own life?! So if the
> Gospel that YOU want to preach is about God hating
> homosexuality, then I'm afraid you've come to the
> wrong place. You won't be destroying any lives in
> THIS group. On the other hand, if you REALLY want
> answers, then we can talk.
> In the name of the Almighty God Jesus Christ,
> Rev. Jim"


So let me hear what you think. feel free to respond.

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

THIS POST MADE BY:
MichaelB
1/3/2003 10:25 AM

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As a pastor it is Jim's responsibility to protect his flock. That is what he is doing.

Michael

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

THIS POST MADE BY:
Basenote
1/3/2003 10:52 AM

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Dear Georgiaboy,

I pray that God grants you peace and wisdom as you continue to walk with him seeking His Will upon your life.

As for the comments made by Rev Jim, I concur and support this.

Equally I support your quest to discover the truth and to bring you peace of mind and spirit resting in Christ as you seek His
will upon your life.

From what I could read regarding the Rev's response, he like you, strongly expressed his position. The challenge you face is not between between you and he, the Rev. It is the inner conflict of abiding by those who support you and your desire to love another male, who will equally embrace you the same way. If anything I would encourage you to pray with your friends asking that God reveal His will upon your life and not your libido.

Challenge yourself to move beyond your limitations, capabilities and skills and press deeper into the endless possibilities that God has for your life. I'm not saying nor negating your quest for truth regarding your sexuality, far from it. What I am saying that as Christ came to do the will of His Father, let us be about doing the same.

Georgiaboy you were definitely not a coincidence, a mistake or something that just happend. You are whom God intended you to be and you may ask what that might be. Well I believe that part of what God intended you to be is about establishing and being in powerful and impacting relationship with others. As God reached out to us and sent His son Jesus Christ die so that we would share an awesome relationship with Him. I believe, likewise as we reach out to each other and those around us, may the relationships we establish be equally as powerful, impacting and awesome!

Take care and may God continue to bless you on your journey,

Base.

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

THIS POST MADE BY:
Brandon, director of GCO
1/3/2003 12:04 PM

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What do I think of Rev. Jim, the manager of this group? Well, if I had a difference of opinion with him (and I have before on other topics), my perception of his character would not and should not have any bearing whatsoever in a logical discussion of opinions or arguments ("argument" being used here in the constructive, non pejorative, sense). A person commits a logical fallacy when they shift from discussing various arguments and simply try to undermine someone's argument by attempt to defame their character. If I'm not mistaken, this is known as Ad Hominem, which means 'against the man [or person]'. So to come here and question Rev. Jim's character is pointless since his character in no way weakens or adds strength to whatever argument, point of view or opinion he has espoused.

Now, back to the question: What do I think of Rev. Jim? I think he's a man who truly loves God and seeks to live according to God's Word. I think he's a man of passion and conviction who has a tender servant's heart and desires to help his fellow man find the true freedom that Christ came to this Earth to give to each one of us. That's what I think of Rev. Jim.

Now finally, Georgiaboy, since you're interested in making private comments public in an effort to collect thoughts on someone's character, I'm sure you won't mind if we shine that light on you for a moment. After two attempts to join the Group I manage, on November 4 and again on December 21 (both attempts were denied), you applied a third time (still on December 21), stating "I am struggling right now with my sexual identity and would really like to join your group because it seems like a safe place for discussion and fellowship." I will allow everyone to evaluate that information, in light of your messages here and in other Christian GLBT themed MSN Groups, to decide what they think of you. God bless!

in His service,
Brandon

(you can read more about the fallacies that are often committed when someone tries to make an argument or discredit an oposing argument by visiting www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/.)

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

THIS POST WAS MADE BY:
Georgiaboy
1/3/2003 1:07 PM

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Now for the reason i posted this. It was not because i was trying further to prove my point and wasnt because i wanted to create a mutiny. I have no harsh feelings toward rev. Jim. The reason i posted this is because i feel it was inappropriate for him to respond the way he did. I dont care that he disagreed with me it is not that big of a deal if i say something and people dont agree with me. I just think some of the things he said to me were not in a understanding, i hear your point but here is mine. I felt like he was being attacked and everything i believe in was. The main reason i posted this though is because of something he wrote at the end. He wished my family would fail so i could come back to him and he could tell me he was right abd i was wrong and the is just not something you do.

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

THIS POST WAS MADE BY:
JoeBearly
1/3/2003 10:09 PM

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He wished your family would fail? I think you need to re-read his letter a few times. Here is what you said that he said in his letter to you:

'If you dont want to believe what I wrote then go ahead and believe the lies of the homophobes in the church and pretend to be straight; and after you get married to some woman and have kids and realize 20 years from now that you really ARE gay and that your entire marriage has been a lie, and when you destroy your wife's life and the lives of your children - as THOUSANDS of gay men have done because they have believed the bigots in the church - then I'll be here to tell you "I told you so".'

Now, I'm going to assume that he did in fact send you this email. He did NOT say that he wished your family would fail. He said IF you want to believe the lies and the rhetoric of the hypocrites in the churches today and pretend that you are straight...go ahead!! What you may not realize is that there are many who have walked the path that you now walk, who tried to go straight. I am one of them. After 14 years of marriage (and two kids) I finally realized that the feelings I had were not going to go away, and that I was gay.

Keep in mind that I spent most of those 14 years preaching "against the sins of homosexuality" as a Baptist pastor. I know all the rhetoric that anti-gay groups preach. I also know what I felt in my heart then, and what I feel in my heart today. God loves me...period!

It was not easy making the decision to leave my wife (and my kids), but it was a decision that I felt was fair to her, the kids and myself. I knew that our life would be miserable if I stayed in the marriage and continued "pretending".

It seems to me that the people who are counseling you in your walk are anti-gay. This is the reason they are leading you the way they are. If you want to become straight...go right ahead, don't let us stop you. We just ask that you stop pandering their lies and rhetoric here in this group. I, for one, do not care to hear it.

Russ
aka JoeBearly

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

THIS POST WAS MADE BY:
gasman
1/4/2003 12:43 AM

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I am Rev. Jim's best friend and I support him in all of his beliefs and written expressions. I am also straight, married, and love my wife and my God.

David L.

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

THIS POST WAS MADE BY:
Basenote
1/4/2003 11:07 AM

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Dear Georgioboy,

You have determined in your mind and in your heart that the Rev's response in part was inappropriate. In making this claim, what is it you hoped to achieve or prove? Don't let Satan rob you off the blessings and the Will of God upon your life, by focusing on what you believe to be the "wrongs" of others. Whether your are justified or not, the challenge I believe is to see whether such an experience takes us away from pursuing the Will of God upon our lives. Satan would love nothing better then to trip both you and I up and the way he successful does this is by letting us believe that an njustice has been committed. We become self righteous and all dignified like we are owed something.

If you are going to judge Rev Jim, then judge the man by his heart. By his intent. And then re-examine the issue you have toward him. I hold the view that Rev Jim's reply demonstrates a man annointed God with a passionate heart convicted to the supporting and saving of lives.

God Bless Georgioboy as you press further into His mind and heart seeking His Will upon your life. Guard your heart wisely by continuing to read God's word and as for the counsel around you. Finally, just another suggestion Georgioboy, with regard to the counsel around you, remember it is there simply for your consideration and determination. I pray that it clears your
path rather than clutter it up stuff!

Peace,

Base.

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

THIS POST MADE BY:
gasman
1/4/2003 2:27 PM

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Georgiaboy,

Perhaps Rev. Jim's message was a little strong, but he has passion and conviction for his beliefs. His anger is not with you, but with those who would condemn anyone for being gay. Most of the world is strongly homophobic, and in fact persecutes gays. A few decades back, and in many countries today, it still carries a death sentence. This country is largely myopic, close-minded, and hateful.

But why does the church always pick on the "gay sin"? Why not persecute those who violate the Sabbath, or who steal, or commit heterosexual adultery, or dishonor their parents, or worship idols? Oh sure, the church says it's wrong, but they mention these sins in a sermon and then move on. But they do not persecute these "other sinners." Why? What's the difference? The answer is simple.

You persecute those you HATE, not those you want to help.

So despite their "holy words" (e.g., hate the sin, love the sinner), the church hates gays, and therefore persecutes them. They excommunicate them, execute them, denounce them, and publicly humiliate them. And Rev. Jim is just tired of it. And he has been hurt by it himself. And he has seen thousands of innocent, fragile, loving people destroyed by the churches "faith healing" and blatant intolerance of gays. He has found a blessed and righteous walk with the lord and he wants to share it with everyone he can. We all deserve a peaceful walk with the lord, for his burden is easy and his yolk is light. Jesus said, "All judgment has been given to the Son of Man," so let Jesus do the judging, not us. Keep an open heart.

All my love,

David L

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

THIS POST MADE BY:
riser9
1/5/2003 6:10 PM

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Dear Rev Jim

I never usually go on msn [the original host of this website] but I decided to check my mail as I usually have one or two pieces of mail. Well today when i went to check I found at least 25 message about what do you think about rev jim. I started reading and well... I have to first say I am A gay male parent. I have 3 grown children and two geandchildren. I disagree with all those that say gay is a choice an option we chose. well that is not true who wants to be gay and have all the biggets and all the church telling you throughout the years you are a sinner and going to hell. I for one know i am one of gods children and will be with him in the after. see my wife knew i was gay before were got married and knew the chances that were there my being gay not knowing when or if i would leave. we had a good life together and like i said also had three lovely children who are all straight. the time came we parted ways and we till today are best friends and are together with the kids grandkids and my boyfriend every year. and as for god i do believe he is with us all . i mean after all i had and have a great life and god is always with me . God is a loving god and not a hateing god. I do believe all god wants is for us to be the best we can no matter what. race sex sexuality and such does not matter to him . Remember god said let he who lives without sin cast the first stone so i guess no one can really talk about the other.

I read Rev jim's message and i do agree with him .
george

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

THIS POST MADE BY:
MichaelB
1/5/2003 9:21 PM

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God is a loving god and not a hateing god. I do believe all god wants is for us to be the best we can no matter what. race sex sexuality and such does not matter to him . Remember god said let he who lives without sin cast the first stone so i guess no one can really talk about the other.

I read Rev jim's message and i do agree with him george.


Michael

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

THIS POST MADE BY:
gasman
1/8/2003 4:47 PM

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Jim,
Hi, I just finished reading 5 awesome letters of support for you. all were able to see the truth and none think badly of your sharp toned letter to georgiaboy. A strong rebuke is sometimes needed, especially when you are protecting the flock.

David L.

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

THIS POST MADE BY:
MostAncientFaith
2/13/2003 7:21 PM

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I'd just like to add my 2 cents worth.

I agree with Rev. Jim. Even in the gay community, there has to be tough love. We may be gay but we aren't willows. And by tough, I do mean that there must be guidelines for groups. This is group for gay people. If someone isn't even up to acknowledging their feelings, it shouldn't be up to us to defend who we are. We have enough of that garbage in "real time." Cyber affords us some safety for those who need it. Frankly, we just don't need another debating group--God knows there enough out there and those who want to perpetrate their banter should know there are like-minded people they can talk with.

Rev. Jim, you did the right thing.

Sincerely,
Tony

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

THIS POST MADE BY:
Gentlebear
2/20/2003 9:21 AM

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Georgiaboy has accomplished in some part in what he set up to do.. Why bother with these volumes of words to reply to him? Rev. Jim should have answered him and that should have been the end of it.

If Georgisboy doesn't like this group or what is going on all it takes is a 'click' on his part to leave... unsubscribe, that's all.
It needn't carry on like this... end it, if Georgiaboy doesn't leave, show him the door.

I am sure no one enjoys this bickering back and forth... everybody is getting involved now. I am not enjoying reading this, I am sure others are not either.

Georgiaboy is one person that has set out to disrupt things, and by our participation we are allowing him. IGNORE HIM!! or we will become no better than he is.
George-Winnipeg, MB CAN

[botfield]

I think Rev. Jim is doing a very good job, and helping a lot of people.