Post by Rev. Jim Cunningham on Nov 19, 2008 1:53:58 GMT -5
From: Manager Rev. Jim (Original Message) Sent: 5/30/2004 8:55 PM
Hello brothers and sisters,
Recently I entered into a conversation with one of our members through email about homosexuality. Having obtained his permission (we will call him "Mark"), I would like to share our conversation with you because I believe it may be of help to some of you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark said:
Aren't you doing exactly what the anti-gays are doing by bashing them? I thought this group was all about love and acceptance? Below you use the word always, don't you think that is presumptuous? I have heard several other conversion stories. They are every where. Please don't bash me for my opinion or kick me out of your group as you claim the church has done you.
Thanks, Mark.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rev. Jim said:
Hi Mark,
God bless you and thank you for your reply.
I believe that there is quite a big difference between "bashing" and stating facts. There are of course many people who think that stating facts IS bashing because they do not want to hear those facts and they are offended by them. For example, some people may believe that it is "bashing" by stating the fact that John Kerry and George Bush are members of several occult organizations, or that Billy Graham has publically converted to Catholicism. However, merely be offended by facts does not make stating the facts "bashing".
Bashing specifically involves slander and/or hatred with the intent to cause harm - emotionally, psychologically or physically. Calling homosexuals derogatory names, labeling homosexuals with stereotypes, and claiming that homosexuals in particular are sinners who are going to hell SIMPLY FOR BEING HOMOSEXUAL, all constitute "bashing", because it is based upon personal dislike, distaste, fear, or outright hatred.
On my website I do not tolerate straight-bashing. Straight bashing would involve any of the offensive things mentioned above. However, revealing the tactics of anti-gay Christians to berate and convert homosexuals is not bashing in the slightest.
You say, "I thought this group was about love and acceptance". Absolutely, it is. But it is not ignorant and blind love and acceptance, and neither has the God of the Bible EVER offered ignorant and blind love and acceptance. Everyone has the right to their own opinion, but no one has the right to their own TRUTH. The Bible is the Truth, and therefore those who oppose it are in error. As I have shown with irrefutable proof on the website, the Bible does not condemn homosexuals for being homosexual, and therefore Christians who preach and teach against homosexually are in error. And their error isn't innocent; it is destructive, causing untold numbers of homosexuals to hate themselves, trying to force themselves to be something they are not, and even driving many to suicide, all because they have been convinced by false religious teachers that they are unwanted by God unless they become straight. And such false teachers will answer before God for bearing false testimony about the Lord and bringing a false accusation against Him.
But, my friend, if you read my entire site, you'll see that my accusations are very circumspect. I also chastize the gay community for its saturation in sex, explaining that all Christians, gay or straight, are responsible for their behavior, such as fornication and adultery. The Bible COMMANDS us to contend for the faith. If someone is offended because I state that the Bible says that fornication is forbidden, they have to take the issue up with God, not me. Love does NOT mean accepting things that are offensive to God. It is clearly written "HATE all evil". In my last message to the group, I explained that both the church and the gay community are in error with this. The church says that being gay is sin, but they are wrong. The gay community thinks that fornication is okay because they can't help the fact that they are gay, but they are wrong. Being gay is not a sin, but fornication is a sin. Both groups are coming from false perspectives, and as a minister of the Gospel I am biblically authorized to say so to them. Those that are offended have no interest in God's will but only their own lusts - be that sexual lust or the lust of hatred.
I've also clearly stated that it is true that there are some heterosexuals who have gotten themselves involved in homosexual sex because of various emotional problems, such as a need for male affection, or a lack of ability to get or maintain relationships with women, or having been severely hurt by women, etc. A true heterosexual that has turned to homosexuality needs gentle counselling to guide them back to their proper heterosexual identity. However, that does not mean that a true homosexual needs to convert to heterosexuality. In my section "Read This First", I specifically identify the differences which constitute a true heterosexual and a true homosexual, and the truth about the "ex-gay" movement.
You ask me not to bash you or throw you out of the group for your opinion. I would never bash you, and I would never remove you from the group unless you post a message that is hateful or unless your goal is to convince gays in the group that they are sinners for being gay or that they need to convert to heterosexuality.
I hope to speak with you again. God bless you.
In Jesus or Lord,
Rev. Jim Cunningham
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark said:
What do you believe is the reason he (God) left a blessing of homosexuality out of the Bible?
If God created us and he created some homosexual, why do we not see it in other animals?
How are we supposed to reproduce or have sex with same sex?
Do you think God meant for men to have sex in the anus?
Just a few questions no one else will touch.
Thanks, Mark.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Mark,
This letter is a little lengthy, but that is because I wantto make sure I properly answers your questions. Please bear with me. : )
I would be glad to answer these questions, though I do have a few questions for you as well. By a couple of your questions I am curious as to whether you yourself are gay, and if so, are you a virgin or have you had sex with another man before...? The reason I am curious is because, if you are gay and if you have had sex with a man before, then you would know the answer to your question of "how are we suppose to...have sex with the same sex".
You said, "How are we supposed to reproduce....with same sex?"
As for reproduction, that topic is fully covered on the website under the subject of "Gays & Marriage" and "Adam & Steve" (www.GayChristianSurvivors.com). I would refer you there for my answer to that question.
You said, "What do you believe is the reason he (God) left a blessing of homosexuality out of the Bible?"
I rather look at that question as the same as asking "Why didn't God give a specific blessing to sex between the races?" I believe the blessing of sexuality and mating was given to Adam and Eve, and therefore to all of their descendants - every human on earth - regardless of a person's sexuality. As children of Adam, every one of us is "bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh". Remember that just because God omitted something in the Bible doesn't mean He disappoves of that thing. God did not speak of automobiles and airplanes in the Bible, but that doesn't mean He is against them.
It is clearly written that, where there is no law there is no sin. There is no law against being a homosexual, therefore it is not a sin to be a homosexual. The reason there is no law against being a homosexual is because it would be like having a law against being left handed. It is part of a person's identity, just as being heterosexual is part of a straight person's identity. Now, there are of course laws governing SEX, and those laws apply to all people. The heart of God's sex laws is this: any form of sex whatsoever is prohibited unless it is within a covenant union. But we cannot say that, because God left data out of the Bible specifically about homosexuality, that He is therefore not in support of it.
As a homosexual approaching the Bible - without any outside influence from the church or the gay community - I would see THIS pertaining myself:
Sex is only valid and permissable within a covenant union,
Sex with anyone outside of a covenant union is fornication and adultery,
Animals do not qualify as suitable sexual mates for me and are therefore prohibited,
My father, mother, brother, sister, aunt, uncle, the offspring of my parents siblings and my own sibling's children, do not qualify as suitable sexual mates for me and are therefore prohibited,
If I am heterosexual, then it is prohibited for me to mate with another male and if I am homosexual is prohibited for me to mate with a female,
Persons who are not of the biblical Christian faith are prohibited for me to mate with.
That's it. That's all the Bible says about it.
You said, "If God created us and he created some [of us to be] homosexual, why do we not see it in other animals?"
Actually, we do see this in animals quite frequently, and approximately 96% of mammals have been documented to engage in homosexual pairing, mating and sex, including primates of all kinds, dophins and porpoises, whales, kangaroos, bulls, cows, sheep, goats, rams, dogs, horses, and even several breeds of birds.
But again this question comes from an incorrect perspective, based on a belief that God "makes" heterosexuals and homosexuals. Here is an excerpt from my website section entitled "Orientation Change?" (you can read the full essay at the site):
"The church tells us that God would not make us something that is not good (under their assumption that being gay is not good). Millions of people are born disabled, either physically or mentally, and shall we say that God made them that way? Of course not! Am I implying that homosexuality is a disability? A birth defect? Not at all. The point is that one cannot say that God would not make a person to be a certain way or thing, because that comes from a lack of understanding as to how a human is made. The fact is, that God gives the breath of life when the sperm meets the egg. From there, nature takes over and determines the initial mental and physical make up of a human based on the entire genetic make up of that person's ancestors, starting with the parents and grandparents - which can only be altered by an outside influence (say, an operation that enables a lame person to walk, or medication which repairs a chemical imbalance....or, brainwashing which causes a person to think or behave contrary to their natural functions). The church and "ex-gays" claim that it is possible for gays to change their sexual orientation, saying "God can do anything!" True homosexuals and "ex-ex-gays" claim that it is not possible, saying, "God made me gay, so why would He try to change me to straight?" We all know that there is nothing that God cannot do. With God ALL things are possible. If He so chooses, He can change me from one race to another, or make an extra limb grow from my shoulder. But asking whether or not God can do something is NOT the issue."
If you're thinking that God sits in heaven and says to Himself, "Hmm, I think I'll make THIS one gay," the fact is that it doesn't work that way anymore than saying that He sits in heaven saying, "Gee, I think I'll make THAT guy left handed." Now, you would be correct in saying that God programmed within Adam and Eve VARIETY, so that an entire spectrum of personhoods would spring forth from them, and that God foreknew what the identity of each person would be - gay, straight, black, white, right handed, left handed, Scottish, Mexican, etc. God set it all into motion at the Beginning and we see the result of it with each child that is born. But to say that God specifically MADE a particular person gay or straight is just not biblical.
Your final question was, "Do you think God meant for men to have sex in the anus?"
To be fair you would have to ask the same question of the penis. It is an organ for vacating body waste, specifically urine, which is no more sanitary than waste from the anus. Yet God meant for men to have sex with the penis. That begs the question, why would anyone ever question whether anal sex is right or wrong? The Apostle Paul tells us, while discussing matters of sexual purity, that the marriage bed is sacred. In other words, what goes on sexually between married people is not sin (so long, of course, as it does not specifically violate an existing law, such as inviting a third party to join in sex, etc). If two covenanted people want to have anal sex, where is it written that there is anything sinful in this? Just because it may offend the prudish sensibilities of some people does not make it a sin.
In addition, there is something particularly interesting about the male anus. The entire anus and internal walls are highly sensitive and sexually stimulating. A few inches into the anus is the prostate, conveniently within reach of a penatrating penis, which is so sexually sensitive that just touching it can cause a man to orgasm and ejaculate.
So you must ask yourself, is this mere coincidence? an accident? a design flaw? or is it a wonderful creation of God so that males can enjoy their physical union with their mate?
I hope that this has been of some benefit and that I have fully answered your questions, I look forward to speaking with you again.
Yours in Christ Jesus,
Rev. Jim Cunningham
Hello brothers and sisters,
Recently I entered into a conversation with one of our members through email about homosexuality. Having obtained his permission (we will call him "Mark"), I would like to share our conversation with you because I believe it may be of help to some of you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark said:
Aren't you doing exactly what the anti-gays are doing by bashing them? I thought this group was all about love and acceptance? Below you use the word always, don't you think that is presumptuous? I have heard several other conversion stories. They are every where. Please don't bash me for my opinion or kick me out of your group as you claim the church has done you.
Thanks, Mark.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rev. Jim said:
Hi Mark,
God bless you and thank you for your reply.
I believe that there is quite a big difference between "bashing" and stating facts. There are of course many people who think that stating facts IS bashing because they do not want to hear those facts and they are offended by them. For example, some people may believe that it is "bashing" by stating the fact that John Kerry and George Bush are members of several occult organizations, or that Billy Graham has publically converted to Catholicism. However, merely be offended by facts does not make stating the facts "bashing".
Bashing specifically involves slander and/or hatred with the intent to cause harm - emotionally, psychologically or physically. Calling homosexuals derogatory names, labeling homosexuals with stereotypes, and claiming that homosexuals in particular are sinners who are going to hell SIMPLY FOR BEING HOMOSEXUAL, all constitute "bashing", because it is based upon personal dislike, distaste, fear, or outright hatred.
On my website I do not tolerate straight-bashing. Straight bashing would involve any of the offensive things mentioned above. However, revealing the tactics of anti-gay Christians to berate and convert homosexuals is not bashing in the slightest.
You say, "I thought this group was about love and acceptance". Absolutely, it is. But it is not ignorant and blind love and acceptance, and neither has the God of the Bible EVER offered ignorant and blind love and acceptance. Everyone has the right to their own opinion, but no one has the right to their own TRUTH. The Bible is the Truth, and therefore those who oppose it are in error. As I have shown with irrefutable proof on the website, the Bible does not condemn homosexuals for being homosexual, and therefore Christians who preach and teach against homosexually are in error. And their error isn't innocent; it is destructive, causing untold numbers of homosexuals to hate themselves, trying to force themselves to be something they are not, and even driving many to suicide, all because they have been convinced by false religious teachers that they are unwanted by God unless they become straight. And such false teachers will answer before God for bearing false testimony about the Lord and bringing a false accusation against Him.
But, my friend, if you read my entire site, you'll see that my accusations are very circumspect. I also chastize the gay community for its saturation in sex, explaining that all Christians, gay or straight, are responsible for their behavior, such as fornication and adultery. The Bible COMMANDS us to contend for the faith. If someone is offended because I state that the Bible says that fornication is forbidden, they have to take the issue up with God, not me. Love does NOT mean accepting things that are offensive to God. It is clearly written "HATE all evil". In my last message to the group, I explained that both the church and the gay community are in error with this. The church says that being gay is sin, but they are wrong. The gay community thinks that fornication is okay because they can't help the fact that they are gay, but they are wrong. Being gay is not a sin, but fornication is a sin. Both groups are coming from false perspectives, and as a minister of the Gospel I am biblically authorized to say so to them. Those that are offended have no interest in God's will but only their own lusts - be that sexual lust or the lust of hatred.
I've also clearly stated that it is true that there are some heterosexuals who have gotten themselves involved in homosexual sex because of various emotional problems, such as a need for male affection, or a lack of ability to get or maintain relationships with women, or having been severely hurt by women, etc. A true heterosexual that has turned to homosexuality needs gentle counselling to guide them back to their proper heterosexual identity. However, that does not mean that a true homosexual needs to convert to heterosexuality. In my section "Read This First", I specifically identify the differences which constitute a true heterosexual and a true homosexual, and the truth about the "ex-gay" movement.
You ask me not to bash you or throw you out of the group for your opinion. I would never bash you, and I would never remove you from the group unless you post a message that is hateful or unless your goal is to convince gays in the group that they are sinners for being gay or that they need to convert to heterosexuality.
I hope to speak with you again. God bless you.
In Jesus or Lord,
Rev. Jim Cunningham
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark said:
What do you believe is the reason he (God) left a blessing of homosexuality out of the Bible?
If God created us and he created some homosexual, why do we not see it in other animals?
How are we supposed to reproduce or have sex with same sex?
Do you think God meant for men to have sex in the anus?
Just a few questions no one else will touch.
Thanks, Mark.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Mark,
This letter is a little lengthy, but that is because I wantto make sure I properly answers your questions. Please bear with me. : )
I would be glad to answer these questions, though I do have a few questions for you as well. By a couple of your questions I am curious as to whether you yourself are gay, and if so, are you a virgin or have you had sex with another man before...? The reason I am curious is because, if you are gay and if you have had sex with a man before, then you would know the answer to your question of "how are we suppose to...have sex with the same sex".
You said, "How are we supposed to reproduce....with same sex?"
As for reproduction, that topic is fully covered on the website under the subject of "Gays & Marriage" and "Adam & Steve" (www.GayChristianSurvivors.com). I would refer you there for my answer to that question.
You said, "What do you believe is the reason he (God) left a blessing of homosexuality out of the Bible?"
I rather look at that question as the same as asking "Why didn't God give a specific blessing to sex between the races?" I believe the blessing of sexuality and mating was given to Adam and Eve, and therefore to all of their descendants - every human on earth - regardless of a person's sexuality. As children of Adam, every one of us is "bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh". Remember that just because God omitted something in the Bible doesn't mean He disappoves of that thing. God did not speak of automobiles and airplanes in the Bible, but that doesn't mean He is against them.
It is clearly written that, where there is no law there is no sin. There is no law against being a homosexual, therefore it is not a sin to be a homosexual. The reason there is no law against being a homosexual is because it would be like having a law against being left handed. It is part of a person's identity, just as being heterosexual is part of a straight person's identity. Now, there are of course laws governing SEX, and those laws apply to all people. The heart of God's sex laws is this: any form of sex whatsoever is prohibited unless it is within a covenant union. But we cannot say that, because God left data out of the Bible specifically about homosexuality, that He is therefore not in support of it.
As a homosexual approaching the Bible - without any outside influence from the church or the gay community - I would see THIS pertaining myself:
Sex is only valid and permissable within a covenant union,
Sex with anyone outside of a covenant union is fornication and adultery,
Animals do not qualify as suitable sexual mates for me and are therefore prohibited,
My father, mother, brother, sister, aunt, uncle, the offspring of my parents siblings and my own sibling's children, do not qualify as suitable sexual mates for me and are therefore prohibited,
If I am heterosexual, then it is prohibited for me to mate with another male and if I am homosexual is prohibited for me to mate with a female,
Persons who are not of the biblical Christian faith are prohibited for me to mate with.
That's it. That's all the Bible says about it.
You said, "If God created us and he created some [of us to be] homosexual, why do we not see it in other animals?"
Actually, we do see this in animals quite frequently, and approximately 96% of mammals have been documented to engage in homosexual pairing, mating and sex, including primates of all kinds, dophins and porpoises, whales, kangaroos, bulls, cows, sheep, goats, rams, dogs, horses, and even several breeds of birds.
But again this question comes from an incorrect perspective, based on a belief that God "makes" heterosexuals and homosexuals. Here is an excerpt from my website section entitled "Orientation Change?" (you can read the full essay at the site):
"The church tells us that God would not make us something that is not good (under their assumption that being gay is not good). Millions of people are born disabled, either physically or mentally, and shall we say that God made them that way? Of course not! Am I implying that homosexuality is a disability? A birth defect? Not at all. The point is that one cannot say that God would not make a person to be a certain way or thing, because that comes from a lack of understanding as to how a human is made. The fact is, that God gives the breath of life when the sperm meets the egg. From there, nature takes over and determines the initial mental and physical make up of a human based on the entire genetic make up of that person's ancestors, starting with the parents and grandparents - which can only be altered by an outside influence (say, an operation that enables a lame person to walk, or medication which repairs a chemical imbalance....or, brainwashing which causes a person to think or behave contrary to their natural functions). The church and "ex-gays" claim that it is possible for gays to change their sexual orientation, saying "God can do anything!" True homosexuals and "ex-ex-gays" claim that it is not possible, saying, "God made me gay, so why would He try to change me to straight?" We all know that there is nothing that God cannot do. With God ALL things are possible. If He so chooses, He can change me from one race to another, or make an extra limb grow from my shoulder. But asking whether or not God can do something is NOT the issue."
If you're thinking that God sits in heaven and says to Himself, "Hmm, I think I'll make THIS one gay," the fact is that it doesn't work that way anymore than saying that He sits in heaven saying, "Gee, I think I'll make THAT guy left handed." Now, you would be correct in saying that God programmed within Adam and Eve VARIETY, so that an entire spectrum of personhoods would spring forth from them, and that God foreknew what the identity of each person would be - gay, straight, black, white, right handed, left handed, Scottish, Mexican, etc. God set it all into motion at the Beginning and we see the result of it with each child that is born. But to say that God specifically MADE a particular person gay or straight is just not biblical.
Your final question was, "Do you think God meant for men to have sex in the anus?"
To be fair you would have to ask the same question of the penis. It is an organ for vacating body waste, specifically urine, which is no more sanitary than waste from the anus. Yet God meant for men to have sex with the penis. That begs the question, why would anyone ever question whether anal sex is right or wrong? The Apostle Paul tells us, while discussing matters of sexual purity, that the marriage bed is sacred. In other words, what goes on sexually between married people is not sin (so long, of course, as it does not specifically violate an existing law, such as inviting a third party to join in sex, etc). If two covenanted people want to have anal sex, where is it written that there is anything sinful in this? Just because it may offend the prudish sensibilities of some people does not make it a sin.
In addition, there is something particularly interesting about the male anus. The entire anus and internal walls are highly sensitive and sexually stimulating. A few inches into the anus is the prostate, conveniently within reach of a penatrating penis, which is so sexually sensitive that just touching it can cause a man to orgasm and ejaculate.
So you must ask yourself, is this mere coincidence? an accident? a design flaw? or is it a wonderful creation of God so that males can enjoy their physical union with their mate?
I hope that this has been of some benefit and that I have fully answered your questions, I look forward to speaking with you again.
Yours in Christ Jesus,
Rev. Jim Cunningham