Post by Rev. Jim Cunningham on Nov 19, 2008 1:05:36 GMT -5
From: JayDWhite (Original Message) Sent: 10/2/2003 4:20 PM
There are many battles between the Forces of Good and the Forces of Evil. The major problem in these battles is that there is no clear distinction between them. Each side believes that it is they that are the “Good” and are fighting the righteous fight against “Evil”. It may only be in the minds of the combatants that this distinction is ever clear.
One such battle is over homosexuality. On one side are those that are fighting the further acceptance of homosexuality as a normal, but atypical, sexuality. These are people who base their stance on religious policy. On the other are those that recognize that homosexuality is, and always has been, normal but atypical. These are people that are either non-heterosexual, or people that understand and support them.
We, at least those that actually have considered the facts as we know them, are divided into the “Good” and “Evil” camps. Who is who is in dispute but one thing is certain, each camp is composed of passionate warriors. The battles have been waged for so long that neither camp will admit a failing position, if one exists. So the battles are not to convince the opposing army to lay down their arms and join the “Good” side, but to convince the spectators that their side is the “Good” one.
It is the spectators that must be convinced that one side or the other is right. But perhaps there are truths to be found in both camps. In both the wheat is still mixed with the chaff and both have failed in their task to separate them
At this point, can the wheat be separated and saved, or will it lay rotting in the field? This is the net affect of always presenting the “other's side” and not our own. The anti-gay advocates are forever presenting what the “Homosexual” believes. How the “Homosexual” thinks. Repeatedly talks about how deceived the “Homosexual” is. But, overall, present very little fact supporting their “wheat”.
It should be obvious by this point that this article is, or tries to present, the “Good” side that is Pro-Gay. It should be admitted that there are always difficulties in any sexuality but none are any greater for the “homosexual” than they are for the “heterosexual”. It must be stated clearly that in a committed monogamous relationship there is virtually no difference as far as STDs and other “ailments” between a homosexual couple and a heterosexual couple.
The “many” risks attributed to “the gay lifestyle” are not inherent in the sexuality but are those associated with promiscuity. It has been argued, however, that homosexual men, take note of this distinction, are “more” promiscuous than their heterosexual counter part. There is a problem in this presentation. For many Anti-Gay Advocates this statement is high on their list of ammunition lobed at the non-heterosexual but never substantiated. Why is this so? Primarily because the Anti-Gay Advocate argues that the number of homosexuals in a population are exceedingly small, but again no facts to back them up. How is it possible to determine the number of that “exceedingly small” segment that are “promiscuous”? The Anti-Gay's are defeated by their own rhetoric.
It is hard to argue against the religious position that homosexuality is a sin. Hard but not impossible. It has been done, and quite successfully. The position that “God hates wonderful people” is one that can not be supported properly with scripture. This does not, however, prevent some from making that claim. This religious position has been countered by both psychological and religious arguments.
When the psychological arguments are presented, along with the fact that all professional psychological organizations present homosexuality as a non-illness, the Anti-Gay Advocate claims that “They have been ‘taken over' by the homosexuals”. This is amazing! An “exceedingly small” segment of the population has been able to rally the few to overcome the many!
When the religious arguments are presented, which is based on thorough historical, cultural, and textual study of scripture, the Anti-Gay Advocate argue that the scripture is either being “twisted” or that the presenter is “picking and choosing” what scripture to follow. This is done in spite of the fact that many of these studies are preformed by highly respected scholars. “Highly respected scholars”! By whom, they state. Many of these scholars are members of the academia.
“Ah, ‘Academia'! Those ‘Liberal Anti-Christian' institutions!” So, if they can not be properly countered then attempts are made to just dismiss them out of hand!
The many claims made against the homosexual ring hollow. They are, apparently, spoken to the already convinced. The problem is that more and more people are rejecting those claims, but are not quite ready to embrace a Pro-Gay position. The neutral spectator.
The Warriors in the “Good” Pro-Gay Camp are passionate for personal reasons. They have experienced that harm inflicted on them by society and are properly fighting back. The question that arises is, why are the Warriors of the “Good” Anti-Gay Camp so passionate? What makes this fight important to them?
Many reasons have been advanced. Some reasonable, some not so reasonable. The Anti-Gay Camp argues that they are passionate because they are “concerned” for our immortal soul. That they are tasked to “Bring the Word of God” to the homosexual. They paint the homosexual as “God Haters”, even when presented with the fact that there are thousands of gays & lesbians throughout the world who faithfully serve in their churches and consider their faith a vital part of their lives. Many serve as pastors, elders, deacons, music ministers or missionaries. This on top of the fact that there are more and more Gay Affirming Christian Churches than ever before.
The homosexual is in a virtual Catch-22. If they remain silent, as many Anti-Gay Advocates have demanded, then fundamental rights are endangered. If they speak out then the wrath of the Anti-Gay Lobby is turned on them. The “Good” gay is the servile gay, the “Bad” gay is the vocal gay. But there is a problem with this depiction. For the longest time the gays of the world were servile, were silent, because to be otherwise risked life, limb and property. There came a day that the fear of harm was overwhelmed by the frustration of being a second class citizen. On that day, like Ms Parks who refused to vacate her seat for a “first class citizen”, some gays refused to meekly submit and became examples to follow.
In the not to distant past, attempts were made to create homosexual communities. To be sequestered away from the “better” people of the world. For a time it worked, until a need for a scapegoat arose, and the communities was destroyed. Isolation, and segregation, does not work for that creates a boogieman to attack. It is only in visibility that the gay can achieve that which is rightfully theirs. The Right to pursue Life, Liberty and, wherever possible, Happiness.
Basic fundamental rights. The right of property, and to have that property protected. The right to livelihood, without danger of its loss for no other reason that sexual orientation bias. The right to companionship, and to protect that companionship. The right to speak out, and not be silenced. These are the “special” rights that others have that are routinely denied the homosexual.
It has been argued that the Homosexual wishes to silence all dissenting voices. To subject those that disagree to suffer by penalty of law. Hateful speech is always unacceptable but apparently some hateful speech still has the protection of law. Now a new phenomenon, the loss of that protection is viewed as a “loss of rights” by those that were previously favored.
But it is not true. Homosexuals, the Gay Advocates, are not wanting to silence dissent, but to turn it into a dialog. We are tired of the ringing ear from the shouting that has been directed our way. People of faith, be they heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual, or transgendered, have began to reach out and the dialog is beginning.
Perhaps that is the very reason why the Anti-Gay Advocate hollers that the Gay Advocates are “Intolerant” and that anyone with an opposing viewpoint should be “silenced under penalty of law”. They wish no dialog, they wish to have their viewpoint prevail. It must be emphasized that it is “Dialog”, not “Shouting Matches” that are desired. But “Dialog” is seen as a means to a “Compromise” and that is something that the Anti-Gay will never tolerate!
It has been presented, by some Anti-Gayers, that homosexuality is a “self-absorbed” lifestyle. That it is, first and foremost, a “choice”, and a “sin”. They argue that there are “tens of thousands” of homosexuals that have “decided” to leave that life of sin and “become” heterosexual. Notwithstanding the fact that this is an “appeal to number”, no other information is provided. When pressed the Ex-Gay Ministries, and such organizations as NARTH, make the claim that they are “Protecting the private lives of their ex-charges”. In other words, there is no long term data, and follow up study on them, at least not permitted by these ministries and organizations.
To further compound the issue, when professional organizations such as APA, have been successful in obtaining data, from the people themselves, the outcome is not rosy. Case, after case, shows that the “Reparative Therapies” used by NARTH, and the Ex-Gay Ministries are always harmful. It should be noted that this is just from those that have come forward. Perhaps the “successful” conversions should step forward and air their cases. If this is accomplished then a much better view of the conversions can be had.
It is easy to site statistics, like the only published study of conversion where of 203 “clients” of the Exodus Ministries where studies only 6 claimed conversion to heterosexuality. It should be further noted that of the 6 “conversions”, 5 where paid employees of the Ministries. This last does not negate their conversion but it does bring it into question, for they have an “incentive” to make a false claim.
But siting stats is not siting facts, stats are just isolated cases, and pieces of information. It is when the amount of data is collected, piled together, that the cases lean one way or the other. A preponderants of evidence is all that can be hoped for, for either side in this battle.
The battles between the Forces of Good and the Forces of Evil are being waged, and will continue to be waged. For some it is a purely religious issue for others it is both a personal and religious one. Don't close the dialog, but discus, confer, and compromise.
Jay
There are many battles between the Forces of Good and the Forces of Evil. The major problem in these battles is that there is no clear distinction between them. Each side believes that it is they that are the “Good” and are fighting the righteous fight against “Evil”. It may only be in the minds of the combatants that this distinction is ever clear.
One such battle is over homosexuality. On one side are those that are fighting the further acceptance of homosexuality as a normal, but atypical, sexuality. These are people who base their stance on religious policy. On the other are those that recognize that homosexuality is, and always has been, normal but atypical. These are people that are either non-heterosexual, or people that understand and support them.
We, at least those that actually have considered the facts as we know them, are divided into the “Good” and “Evil” camps. Who is who is in dispute but one thing is certain, each camp is composed of passionate warriors. The battles have been waged for so long that neither camp will admit a failing position, if one exists. So the battles are not to convince the opposing army to lay down their arms and join the “Good” side, but to convince the spectators that their side is the “Good” one.
It is the spectators that must be convinced that one side or the other is right. But perhaps there are truths to be found in both camps. In both the wheat is still mixed with the chaff and both have failed in their task to separate them
At this point, can the wheat be separated and saved, or will it lay rotting in the field? This is the net affect of always presenting the “other's side” and not our own. The anti-gay advocates are forever presenting what the “Homosexual” believes. How the “Homosexual” thinks. Repeatedly talks about how deceived the “Homosexual” is. But, overall, present very little fact supporting their “wheat”.
It should be obvious by this point that this article is, or tries to present, the “Good” side that is Pro-Gay. It should be admitted that there are always difficulties in any sexuality but none are any greater for the “homosexual” than they are for the “heterosexual”. It must be stated clearly that in a committed monogamous relationship there is virtually no difference as far as STDs and other “ailments” between a homosexual couple and a heterosexual couple.
The “many” risks attributed to “the gay lifestyle” are not inherent in the sexuality but are those associated with promiscuity. It has been argued, however, that homosexual men, take note of this distinction, are “more” promiscuous than their heterosexual counter part. There is a problem in this presentation. For many Anti-Gay Advocates this statement is high on their list of ammunition lobed at the non-heterosexual but never substantiated. Why is this so? Primarily because the Anti-Gay Advocate argues that the number of homosexuals in a population are exceedingly small, but again no facts to back them up. How is it possible to determine the number of that “exceedingly small” segment that are “promiscuous”? The Anti-Gay's are defeated by their own rhetoric.
It is hard to argue against the religious position that homosexuality is a sin. Hard but not impossible. It has been done, and quite successfully. The position that “God hates wonderful people” is one that can not be supported properly with scripture. This does not, however, prevent some from making that claim. This religious position has been countered by both psychological and religious arguments.
When the psychological arguments are presented, along with the fact that all professional psychological organizations present homosexuality as a non-illness, the Anti-Gay Advocate claims that “They have been ‘taken over' by the homosexuals”. This is amazing! An “exceedingly small” segment of the population has been able to rally the few to overcome the many!
When the religious arguments are presented, which is based on thorough historical, cultural, and textual study of scripture, the Anti-Gay Advocate argue that the scripture is either being “twisted” or that the presenter is “picking and choosing” what scripture to follow. This is done in spite of the fact that many of these studies are preformed by highly respected scholars. “Highly respected scholars”! By whom, they state. Many of these scholars are members of the academia.
“Ah, ‘Academia'! Those ‘Liberal Anti-Christian' institutions!” So, if they can not be properly countered then attempts are made to just dismiss them out of hand!
The many claims made against the homosexual ring hollow. They are, apparently, spoken to the already convinced. The problem is that more and more people are rejecting those claims, but are not quite ready to embrace a Pro-Gay position. The neutral spectator.
The Warriors in the “Good” Pro-Gay Camp are passionate for personal reasons. They have experienced that harm inflicted on them by society and are properly fighting back. The question that arises is, why are the Warriors of the “Good” Anti-Gay Camp so passionate? What makes this fight important to them?
Many reasons have been advanced. Some reasonable, some not so reasonable. The Anti-Gay Camp argues that they are passionate because they are “concerned” for our immortal soul. That they are tasked to “Bring the Word of God” to the homosexual. They paint the homosexual as “God Haters”, even when presented with the fact that there are thousands of gays & lesbians throughout the world who faithfully serve in their churches and consider their faith a vital part of their lives. Many serve as pastors, elders, deacons, music ministers or missionaries. This on top of the fact that there are more and more Gay Affirming Christian Churches than ever before.
The homosexual is in a virtual Catch-22. If they remain silent, as many Anti-Gay Advocates have demanded, then fundamental rights are endangered. If they speak out then the wrath of the Anti-Gay Lobby is turned on them. The “Good” gay is the servile gay, the “Bad” gay is the vocal gay. But there is a problem with this depiction. For the longest time the gays of the world were servile, were silent, because to be otherwise risked life, limb and property. There came a day that the fear of harm was overwhelmed by the frustration of being a second class citizen. On that day, like Ms Parks who refused to vacate her seat for a “first class citizen”, some gays refused to meekly submit and became examples to follow.
In the not to distant past, attempts were made to create homosexual communities. To be sequestered away from the “better” people of the world. For a time it worked, until a need for a scapegoat arose, and the communities was destroyed. Isolation, and segregation, does not work for that creates a boogieman to attack. It is only in visibility that the gay can achieve that which is rightfully theirs. The Right to pursue Life, Liberty and, wherever possible, Happiness.
Basic fundamental rights. The right of property, and to have that property protected. The right to livelihood, without danger of its loss for no other reason that sexual orientation bias. The right to companionship, and to protect that companionship. The right to speak out, and not be silenced. These are the “special” rights that others have that are routinely denied the homosexual.
It has been argued that the Homosexual wishes to silence all dissenting voices. To subject those that disagree to suffer by penalty of law. Hateful speech is always unacceptable but apparently some hateful speech still has the protection of law. Now a new phenomenon, the loss of that protection is viewed as a “loss of rights” by those that were previously favored.
But it is not true. Homosexuals, the Gay Advocates, are not wanting to silence dissent, but to turn it into a dialog. We are tired of the ringing ear from the shouting that has been directed our way. People of faith, be they heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual, or transgendered, have began to reach out and the dialog is beginning.
Perhaps that is the very reason why the Anti-Gay Advocate hollers that the Gay Advocates are “Intolerant” and that anyone with an opposing viewpoint should be “silenced under penalty of law”. They wish no dialog, they wish to have their viewpoint prevail. It must be emphasized that it is “Dialog”, not “Shouting Matches” that are desired. But “Dialog” is seen as a means to a “Compromise” and that is something that the Anti-Gay will never tolerate!
It has been presented, by some Anti-Gayers, that homosexuality is a “self-absorbed” lifestyle. That it is, first and foremost, a “choice”, and a “sin”. They argue that there are “tens of thousands” of homosexuals that have “decided” to leave that life of sin and “become” heterosexual. Notwithstanding the fact that this is an “appeal to number”, no other information is provided. When pressed the Ex-Gay Ministries, and such organizations as NARTH, make the claim that they are “Protecting the private lives of their ex-charges”. In other words, there is no long term data, and follow up study on them, at least not permitted by these ministries and organizations.
To further compound the issue, when professional organizations such as APA, have been successful in obtaining data, from the people themselves, the outcome is not rosy. Case, after case, shows that the “Reparative Therapies” used by NARTH, and the Ex-Gay Ministries are always harmful. It should be noted that this is just from those that have come forward. Perhaps the “successful” conversions should step forward and air their cases. If this is accomplished then a much better view of the conversions can be had.
It is easy to site statistics, like the only published study of conversion where of 203 “clients” of the Exodus Ministries where studies only 6 claimed conversion to heterosexuality. It should be further noted that of the 6 “conversions”, 5 where paid employees of the Ministries. This last does not negate their conversion but it does bring it into question, for they have an “incentive” to make a false claim.
But siting stats is not siting facts, stats are just isolated cases, and pieces of information. It is when the amount of data is collected, piled together, that the cases lean one way or the other. A preponderants of evidence is all that can be hoped for, for either side in this battle.
The battles between the Forces of Good and the Forces of Evil are being waged, and will continue to be waged. For some it is a purely religious issue for others it is both a personal and religious one. Don't close the dialog, but discus, confer, and compromise.
Jay