Divorce or Covenant

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

From: Naomi0612 (Original Message) Sent: 2/12/2007 10:38 AM
Why, if we do not advocate divorce should we encourage Mr. Haggard to divorce his wife and marry his lover? I have been advised that I should stay in my marriage because it is a covenant that I made, more important with GOD, than my spouse. Not follow my HEARTS desire and leave. I am rather confused by the conflicting beliefs here.

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

From: CobaltBay Sent: 2/12/2007 8:09 PM
Hi Naomi,

I think what others are saying is Haggard should have not married a woman to begin with. It was unfair to her and unfair to himself to commit himself into a covenant he could not keep. This goes beyond adultary and, in my oppinion, This marriage covenant was null and void to begin with and its resulting fruits are a testament to that.

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

From: Manager Rev. Jim Sent: 2/12/2007 9:50 PM
To everyone, regarding Brother Haggard and the issues of marriage and homosexuality...

It is the belief of this ministry (Gay Christian Survivors/King James Bible Ministry) that the Bible, and therefore the Lord, requires faithfulness to covenants - especially the marriage covenant. Jesus, as well as Paul (speaking by the Holy Spirit), are very clear regarding the marriage covenat, and I'd like to share with you here what I have to say about this whole issue.

First, bear in mind that the Scriptures are written to believers, not to the world. While the Bible applies to all of mankind, all of mankind does not serve the Lord, and therefore believers are held accountable differently than the world. The believer is expected to keep God's Word because the Holy Spirit dwells within them to teach them holiness and righteousness, but the unbelievers cannot be expected to keep God's Word because, well, they do not believe. For example, the anti-gay church insists that homosexuals will go to hell if they do not become heterosexual, but the Word of God says that ALL people will go to hell and only faith in Jesus will save them from that fate. Christians do not keep God's Word to obtain salvation (that comes by faith in Jesus alone), but we keep God's Word because He is our Father and He expects His children to be obedient (Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep My commandments", and Paul said, "Do we then make void the Law by faith? God forbid! Yea, we ESTABLISH the Law"). So, we cannot compare the marriage covenants of unbelievers with those of believers. Unbelievers marry and divorce at their leasure, and in the larger picture, it doesn't matter because they are bound to eternal condemnation ANYWAY. The point is, in a marriage between two believers, there should not be the same issues occuring that go on in marriages of unbelievers (i.e. physical abuse, verbal abuse, fighting, contention, cold-heartedness, vindictiveness, withdrawing of emotional & physical affection) which drive the unbelievers to divorce. Here are the Laws regarding divorce FOR BELIEVERS (I will continue after these verses):

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FROM JESUS:

"It has been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement. But I say unto you, that whosoever shall put away his wife - saving for the cause of fornication - causeth her to commit adultery, and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery... Have ye not read, that He which made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, for this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore, they are no more twain, but one, flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder... Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, suffered you to put away your wives - but from the beginning it was not so! And I say unto you, whosoever shall put away his wife - except it be for fornication - and shall marry another, committeth adultery, and whosoever marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."
-Matthew 5:31-32, 19: 4-9


FROM PAUL:

"Unto the married I command (yet, not I, but the Lord), let not the wife depart from the husband. BUT, and IF, she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband; and let not the husband put away his wife. But to the rest speak I (not the Lord): if any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And a woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband - else were your children unclean, but now are they holy. BUT, if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister [i.e. a believer] is not under bondage in such cases; but God hath called us to peace. For what knoweth thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? Or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife? But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one so let him walk. And so ordain I in ALL churches."
-1st Corinthians 7:10-17

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So, the issue with brother Haggard is this. First and foremost he is a human just like the rest of us, which means that he is a fallen creature living in a fallen world with fallen influences all around him, and, just like the rest of us, he will fall. Was it hypocritical of him to preach against gays and yet engage in homosexual activity (whether he is a true homosexual or not)? Of course it was. Can we expect him to be extremely ashamed and FRIGHTENED at having his private problems so publically exposed? Most certainly. Does he profess that Jesus is Lord? Yes he does. Is he perfect? No. Can we expect a man like him, who led so many souls to Jesus and bound together a thriving congregation, to throw his entire life away by coming out of the closet if he truly is gay? Nope. Would you want that to be done to you if you were in his shoes? Absolutely not. Should we forgive him no matter what and acknowledge his human weakness, remembering that the salvation of souls takes precident over the issues of sexuality? Absolutely and without question.

Paul himself said that it is lawful for him to eat anything and he is at liberty to eat anything, BUT, if eating meat causes a weak brother to stumble, he would never eat meat again. So which should take priority for brother Haggard - giving up himself and his will for the sake of the Gospel and the sake of saving lost souls and the sake of untold thousands of people who look to him as a pastor and shepherd in this very dark world, or, saying to everyone that he is gay and that he doesn't care what anyone thinks about it anymore? He should rather slit his wrists than to do anything that would lose him so much as one sheep in his fold because of his own selfishness. Sexual identity is not an eternal issue, but losing sheep who have weak faith who would certainly longer feel they can trust God's servants (and therefore God) is an eternal issue. We have got to STOP demanding of our weak breathren, "You must accept homosexuality or we will cast you away and trash you!" No! That is the behavior of the world, my family! We are not of the world, we are of Christ who is not of this world. What He wants COMES FIRST, and we had all better get that through our skulls but quick. This isn't about what we want or how we feel. This isn't about what is fair. NOTHING is fair. Life is not fair. The world is not fair. And that's the way it's going to be until Jesus sits on His throne in Jerusalem. We hadn't better dare to risk the salvation of a soul just because they take issue with homosexuality. We are not here to win victories of earthly issue. We can, when and where it is convenient and possible, but not at the expense of the eternal. We are like a blade of grass, here today, gone tomorrow. We live such a short time. We should not be filling up our time at war with our brethren while multitudes perish.

As to his marriage, he has committed adultery. Whether it was with a man or another woman is a million miles away from the point. As it is clearly written in the verses above, his wife is well within her biblical rights to divorce him. But, as it is also clearly written, if she is pleased to stay with him and he with her, "let her not leave him". Now the church needs to step back, shut up, and let husband and wide deal with THEIR marriage.

One of the things that has extremely disturbed me with the gay community is the desire to label everyone as gay who gives off even the faintest hint of possible gayness. We label every man or woman who has ever engaged in same gender sex as gay - and if they deny that they are gay we insist that they are in the closet. If a guy or girl is overly friendly with us, they must be gay. If they demonstrate an interest in the subject of homosexuality, they must be gay. If they are pro-gay, they must really be gay. This is so very sad and so very WRONG. I have said and explained repeatedly ad infinitum on this site that heterosexuals often engage in homosexual sex, and this does not mean they are homosexual anymore than homosexuals who engage in heterosexual sex makes them heterosexual! The Bible confirms this with Leviticus 18 & 20 and Romans 1 - men who lie with women, who forsake the women for men. Have all of my teachings on this site been in vain? Has no one understood? Am I totally wasting my time here?

None of us know the mind of brother Haggard, none of us know what his life experience has been, none of us know what his feelings and desires and dreams are. And none of us know his inner heart of hearts as to whether he is truly heterosexual or homosexual. He and God alone knows this. What ALL of us - the entire straight and gay church - should say is, "You have repented of your adultery and drug abuse. You have committed to being faithful. We forgive you as the Lord has forgiven you. We expect you to maintain your faithfulness to your wife unless she desires to divorce you, and knowing that you are human just like us we expect you to seek the assistance of the brethren to help you deal with any human issues you may have. Now cut the crap and let's get back to work!"

In Jesus, Rev. Jim

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

From: Naomi0612 Sent: 2/14/2007 1:13 PM
Bro. Jim,
As usual, I thank-you! I am SOOOO not interested in OPINION, but the Word of God! Your continued stand on things only of sripture, not opinion, continues to encourage me. I for one feel your "teachings are not in vain". Aside from the Word itself, you are the only salt and light I have found. Thank-you for standing so firmly!!!
Laurie

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

From: CobaltBay Sent: 2/12/2007 11:26 PM
Jim,

I see how strong you feel on this, but no one is attacking Haggard the imperfect man. We are calling into question the words and deeds of a man who has set himself up as a man of God and yes, he is held to a diffrent standard. Just because a man is my brother in Christ does not mean he has free reign to do and say as he pleases, especially if it brings reproach on God or his fellow Brethren. If Haggard is truly a gay man, That marriage bond does not apply to him. God does not delight in pointless covenants made in error if it brings misery to those invoved. I can make a covenant with God on a many of number of things, But does that make it right? No, Will God honor them just because I make them? Probably not, and I should not expect him to if those covenants are not his will for me. If his wife knows he is gay (He said he has "struggled" with it since an early age) she should let him go in peace if she really loved him. If both say he is straight, They should go and live life and shut up about it already.

[Rev. Jim Cunningham]

CobaltBay, and brethren,



I appreciate your point of view, and I'm glad you voiced it, because I'm sure many gay Christians probably feel the same way. But let me explain why I have a serious problem with this point of view (and understand that I do not debate people, I debate issues, so this is not a personal attack on you, friend).



I view the Scriptures and all of the religious issues that we hold, to be similar to the U. S. Constitution and all of our political issues. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land, which means that no law can be passed which contradicts it (well, that's the way it’s supposed to be, but anyhoo...). When our president takes the oath of office, that oath specifically binds him to set the protection of the Constitution as his first and chief priority, with his very life if need be. No issue supersedes the defense of the Constitution, and in fact, "we the people" as citizens are also bound to that oath. The point being, it doesn't matter how many issues a presidential candidate agrees with you on - whether he is pro-gay, for tax cuts, what have you - if he/she is not willing to protect and defend the Constitution at all cost, it doesn't matter what else he stands for because the Constitution could fall under his rule and all would be lost, making all the other issues moot. I will give you an important example. Please bear with me here because this is vital to understanding our positions about God, sexuality, and marriage, and by extension, brother Haggard.



While America's founding fathers were debating whether or not to approve Jefferson's declaration of independence, the entire South got up and walked out because of Jefferson's reference in the document to the wickedness of black slavery, and they refused to sign unless it was stricken from the declaration. Since the vote for independence had to be unanimous among the 13 colonies, there would be no independence without the Southern vote. John Adams, the representative from Massachusetts and the chief proponent of independence (and later president), was appalled by this and wished to fight them on the point (actually, he wanted to crack their heads together). But, according to the congressional records and several letters written by the delegates, Ben Franklin and a number of other delegates pointed out that Adams' push for independence in the first place had already turned Congress upside down and they feared that pushing the South on the slavery issue would lose them the whole battle for independence. Franklin, who despised slavery, nevertheless urged Adams to drop the subject and allow the anti-slavery clause to be stricken from the document because, he said, that clause was "a luxury we cannot afford." Adams bitterly rebutted him by saying, "A Luxury! A half million souls in chains on plantations of the South and Doctor Franklin calls it a luxury!" Franklin silenced him with these great words of wisdom that ultimately secured our independence: "The issue here is independence. Perhaps Mr. Adams has forgotten this fact, but not I. These men [of the South] will be part of this new nation Adams had hoped to create, and if he cannot learn to live with them, perhaps he should just pack his bags and return home. So then, America first - independence! For, if we do not secure that, what difference will the rest make?"



And with the same conviction that Benjamin Franklin demonstrated, I also am compelled to say, "The Scriptures first! For if we do not secure that, what difference does the rest make?" And by this I echo the prophet Isaiah who said of the Scriptures, "To the Law and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this Word it is because there is no light in them."



And why do I say all of this? Because, my dear friends, we have let the political, sociological and societal issue of sexual identity blind us to our cause. We are not homosexuals who also happen to be Christians. We are Christians who, among other personal characteristics, also happen to be homosexual. Our sexual identity is not the center of our lives as Christians. It is a peripheral issue, like being right/left handed. The issue here is the defense of the Scriptures. Not in one place do the Scriptures tell us to obey God only if it is convenient, or only if it makes sense, or only if we agree with it. God, from the lips of Jesus Himself, commanded that NO divorce among believers is acceptable except for the cause of being sexually unfaithful. That means that simply being gay is not a valid cause for divorce. We cannot say, "I married you, but ooops I made a mistake." The deed is done, the contract is signed, and the covenant is consummated. God clearly stated - not that He hates a broken covenant - but that He hates covenant breakers.



God takes the act of sex (which is the act of marriage) so seriously that He commands the rapist of a virgin to marry her because he has consummated the marriage act. It doesn't matter that "God does not delight in the pointless covenants made in error" or that it would bring "misery to those involved". The point is that the deed was done, right or wrong, and God holds us accountable to it. A covenant is a covenant, and the only covenant we can ever be set free from is our covenant with death - but only because Jesus took that death on Himself for us. The covenant still had to be adhered to. So how then is it lawful for a man to divorce his consummated wife just because he is gay? God's law isn't about us or what feels right to us or what makes sense to us. God said that His ways are NOT our ways, that His ways seem foolish to man. If His ways don't make sense, that's ok! He didn't ask that we understand everything, only that we obey (just ask Adam and Eve). As a character in a biblical movie, when asked if we can question God, had said, "Yes! Question! Ask! Weep, plead, beg and scream, as I have done! But obey when the answer is clear!" We must uphold and defend the Scriptures at all cost, regardless of our issues and debates, because without it all other issues are moot. As soon as we consent to defy the Scriptures just because it doesn't make sense or doesn't seem fair, we might as well pitch the whole Book in the trash can because God will not suffer fools or the luke-warm.



Now, though our CHRISTIAN brother Haggard is biblically bound to his CHRISTIAN wife without regard to his homosexuality and is forbidden to divorce her because of it, he has committed adultery, and THAT is a whole other kettle of fish. When adultery occurs, with whom it occurs is irrelevant, only that it occurred. This is not an issue of a man having sex with another man, this is not an issue of a homosexual man being married to a heterosexual woman, this is not an issue of a professed anti-gay preacher hypocritically engaging in same gender sex; this is an issue of a COVENANTED MARRIED CHRISTIAN MAN committing adultery against his COVENANTED CHRISTIAN WIFE. And it is BIBLICALLY within the faithful spouse's right and power to divorce or forgive the unfaithful spouse. Haggard's wife has opted to forgive (and wondrous blessings on her for it because that is EXACTLY what Jesus would have expected from her, and if any of this was in any way a trial for her, she's passed it with flying colors!!!), and Haggard has chosen to stay with his wife – and whether or not he is in the closet is between he and the Lord to sort out.



Because I’ll tell you right now, if any one of us presumes that a closet homosexual, who has not only been forced into that closet by tremendous fear but who has ascended to the highest ranks of the Body of Christ with a massive following FOR THE GOSPEL’S SAKE, will suddenly be able to wipe away all of his psychological hurt, terror and self-hatred just because his little secret is out and we zealously wish for him to out himself like a pack of mad ACT-UP protestors, has got another thing coming. I don’t want Haggard to come out. I want to start seeing some mercy and patience and love shown to this man as is becoming of sons of daughters of the Lord of Mercy, whether he deserves it or not because NONE of us deserve it and not one of us is any better than Haggard. At least HE’S out there saving souls and trying his darnedest to keep the hearts and eyes of his massive flock on Jesus. Yeah, we don’t like where he stands on homosexuality, and yes, a lot of gay people have been or will be hurt by his anti-gay preaching. But remember this: NO ONE who WILL or WOULD be saved by the Gospel of our Savior Jesus Christ will be lost! Look at all of YOU, here at Gay Christian Survivors, my dear and sweet brothers and sisters whom I would give my very life for! The Word of God was planted and took root in good soil, and God did not fail to continue the good work He began in you. You didn’t give up on God no matter what the homophobes said, and He has not given up on you, and you have overcome. And all of the homosexuals out there who were destined from the foundation of the world to receive salvation WILL receive salvation no matter what. Nothing can change that. The truly faithful, the sincere ones, will keep searching until they find the truth, because they have BELIEVED Jesus when they heard His Gospel. And it is our job, yours and mine, as gay and lesbian Christians, to find them and reach out to them and secure them. That is a direct command from the Scriptures to all believers – for there are many parts in the Body, and it may be that WE, not the straight church, are called to be the voice and light of the Lord to homosexuals. OF COURSE we do not want Haggard preaching anti-gay doctrines because we all know that this will spur on more hatred toward us in the church. Yet, what of it? As Paul said, “Some preach Christ of contention and some preach Christ of peace.” Hey man, what ever it takes to get butts into heaven! This world means nothing, this life means nothing, this will all pass away, it will all burn away and NOTHING of it will remain. Don’t you all understand – the true HETEROSEXUAL Christians out there, who are Elect of God, WILL see the truth because God is with them. When our issue becomes an issue for them, God will lead them to the truth on the issue. MANY of them have already found the truth on websites like this one, or from one-on-one contact with gay Christians. That has ALWAYS been what preaching the Gospel is about – one on one, not in a big church. We are to go out into the highways and byways to find them and bring them home. Trust God that things will unfold as they should, and let us all give a little bit of credit to our truly faithful and loving heterosexual brothers and sisters out there who, if they don’t know the truth now, will know the truth as GOD leads them. Let Haggard preach against homosexuality if he feels so compelled. We cannot and we will not fight him, for we wrestle NOT against flesh and blood. This is just one issue that we debate him on, but I for one will not throw the baby out with the bathwater when I see how many souls enter the kingdom of heaven through him. Forgive him, love him, pray for him. He has a VERY heavy weight on his shoulders and a very difficult future ahead of him. If you view him as an enemy, LOVE YOUR ENEMY. Do good to your enemy. Anyone who cannot or will not is no child of the Father who forgives His enemies – all of which we once were, for while we were yet sinners Christ died for us! Y’all want me to give you meat like a man instead of milk like a baby? Well this here’s a big ol’ chunk of porterhouse steak. Get out your knife and start cutting’, baby, because the days of milk are gone. I will exalt the Lord and I will promote His holiness and His ways and His commands. I will not preach wishy washy hippy lovey dovey religion. The God that destroyed the world in the flood and destroyed Babylon and Egypt and Greece and Rome will be coming back very shortly to obliterate this sin infested, selfish, arrogant world, and I’m sorry but I am far too busy with rescuing as many people as I can before then to give a fraction of a flying spitwad to what Haggard and Graham and Robertson and Bush and Falwell have to say about homosexuality. They will give account for the souls lost on their watch because of their error in doctrine. As for the rest of us, let’s be about our Father's business, because I’m sure many of us would be very red in the face if someone were to right now ask us how many souls have been redeemed at our hands. And if you still don’t get it, I’ll explain it to you in the Conga Line when we party hardy together at the Lamb’s wedding party! Yeehaw!



Love ya lots

Rev. Jim