Post by Rev. Jim Cunningham on Nov 19, 2008 5:04:19 GMT -5
From: Manager Rev. Jim (Original Message) Sent: 5/17/2008 11:21 AM
Hi everyone,
There is an article on LiveScience.com concerning homosexuality in animals. Naturally there were desenters who posted their opposition to the article. I was particularly interested in the response made by a poster named "ArtGuy67", and I wrote a rebuttal to his arguement which I'd like to share with you. Below is a copy of the ArtGuy67's post, followed by my own.
- Rev. Jim Cunningham
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ArtGuy67 wrote:
NICE TRY! Attempting to justify human homosexuality by pointing to some homosexual "type" behaviors in animals? Ever heard of a BIG scientific no no called anthropomorphic fallacy? You're applying human emotions (e.g. "peace-loving", "delight," etc.) to animals. It's obvious you're trying to advance an agenda here. There are a lot of anomalies in the animal kingdom. For example, just because a tiger nurses some motherless piglets doesn't mean it "loves" pigs instead of tigers. It's acting out an instinct to care for it's young vicariously through the piglets. Remember, until you have a behavior that occurs more often than not, it's still abnormal behavior.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RevJim wrote:
NICE TRY, ARTGUY67! Attempting to justify your homophobia by insisting that we have no relation to the animal kingdom? The question of this issue is not whether homosexuality is moral (that which is a man-made opinion on right vs wrong which no two people agree upon) but whether it is NATURAL (that which is a natural occurance, like heterosexuality, defication, and algae on wet rocks). And since there is extensive homosexuality in Mankind and Animalkind, it is therefore NATURAL. If there is any matter of morality here, it is only the issue of fornication among Humans that ought to be called into question. You forget that the same God that created Man also created the entire animal kingdom; and though Man alone was created in God's image, God did not neglect to make the entire animal kingdom of the same substance as Man. It is written:
"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, THAT THEY MIGHT SEE THAT THEY THEMSELVES ARE BEASTS. For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts: even one thing befalleth them - as one dieth, so dieth the other - yea, they have all one breath; SO THAT A MAN HATH NO PREEMINENCE OVER A BEAST, for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust and all turn to dust again. Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?" Ecclesiastes 3:18-21. That's right, THE BIBLE said that.
You attribute to the animal kingdom all instinct and no conscience, and to Man all conscience and no instinct - and in this, both the Bible and science says you are absolutely WRONG. It's obvious that YOU are trying to advance an agenda here - one based on neither proper theology nor proper science.
The main problem is that, because animals fornicate legally and man fornicates illegally under God's law, you seem to think that homosexuality is legal among animals and illegal among humans. That is faulty logic. Heterosexual sex is not forbidden by God among Humans nor among animals. There is not one single law in the entire Bible which condemns homosexual identity, homosexual marriage, or sex within that marriage. While you may twist a couple of totally irrellavent verses, such as those in the Levitical law, or try to attribute homosexuality to Sodom, the facts of Scripture rebut all homophobic interpretation (and I would be more than willing to prove that tyo you in a further discussion).
God's Law allows heterosexual sex in both humans and animals, with the only exception being that humans, because they are made in God's image, must be monogomously married for life in order to have sex.
You seem to think that this is not the same case for homosexuality, and you would again be wrong.
God's Law allows homosexual sex in both humans and animals, with the only exception being that humans, because they are made in God's image, must be monogomously married for life to have sex. It isn't the SEX that is legal or illegal, it is the presence of a covenant or lack of a covenant that makes all things legal or illegal.
You assert by your arguement that God permits heterosexuality in Man and animals, but that God is biased with homosexuality, forbidding it in Man and permitting it to animals. The Bible contradicts this view.
It is only your personal dislike for the same gender that makes you think that homosexuality is wrong. And that's as illogical as saying, "I do not like chocolate cake and will not eat it, so therefore it is wrong for anyone else to like chocolate cake, and if they eat it they have sinned."
You also made the outrageous comment that, "Until you have a behavior that occurs more often than not, it's still abnormal behavior." REALLY??!!!! So then you are saying that left-handed people are abnormal? that it is abnormal behavior for them to use their left hand because their behavior does not occur more often than not? Majority most certainly is not a qualifier for truth! Your agument is the same one used by Hitler's white supremacy doctrine and the American South's pro-slavery doctrine.
-Rev. Jim Cunningham
King James Bible Ministries
GayChristianSurvivors.com
Hi everyone,
There is an article on LiveScience.com concerning homosexuality in animals. Naturally there were desenters who posted their opposition to the article. I was particularly interested in the response made by a poster named "ArtGuy67", and I wrote a rebuttal to his arguement which I'd like to share with you. Below is a copy of the ArtGuy67's post, followed by my own.
- Rev. Jim Cunningham
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ArtGuy67 wrote:
NICE TRY! Attempting to justify human homosexuality by pointing to some homosexual "type" behaviors in animals? Ever heard of a BIG scientific no no called anthropomorphic fallacy? You're applying human emotions (e.g. "peace-loving", "delight," etc.) to animals. It's obvious you're trying to advance an agenda here. There are a lot of anomalies in the animal kingdom. For example, just because a tiger nurses some motherless piglets doesn't mean it "loves" pigs instead of tigers. It's acting out an instinct to care for it's young vicariously through the piglets. Remember, until you have a behavior that occurs more often than not, it's still abnormal behavior.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RevJim wrote:
NICE TRY, ARTGUY67! Attempting to justify your homophobia by insisting that we have no relation to the animal kingdom? The question of this issue is not whether homosexuality is moral (that which is a man-made opinion on right vs wrong which no two people agree upon) but whether it is NATURAL (that which is a natural occurance, like heterosexuality, defication, and algae on wet rocks). And since there is extensive homosexuality in Mankind and Animalkind, it is therefore NATURAL. If there is any matter of morality here, it is only the issue of fornication among Humans that ought to be called into question. You forget that the same God that created Man also created the entire animal kingdom; and though Man alone was created in God's image, God did not neglect to make the entire animal kingdom of the same substance as Man. It is written:
"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, THAT THEY MIGHT SEE THAT THEY THEMSELVES ARE BEASTS. For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts: even one thing befalleth them - as one dieth, so dieth the other - yea, they have all one breath; SO THAT A MAN HATH NO PREEMINENCE OVER A BEAST, for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust and all turn to dust again. Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?" Ecclesiastes 3:18-21. That's right, THE BIBLE said that.
You attribute to the animal kingdom all instinct and no conscience, and to Man all conscience and no instinct - and in this, both the Bible and science says you are absolutely WRONG. It's obvious that YOU are trying to advance an agenda here - one based on neither proper theology nor proper science.
The main problem is that, because animals fornicate legally and man fornicates illegally under God's law, you seem to think that homosexuality is legal among animals and illegal among humans. That is faulty logic. Heterosexual sex is not forbidden by God among Humans nor among animals. There is not one single law in the entire Bible which condemns homosexual identity, homosexual marriage, or sex within that marriage. While you may twist a couple of totally irrellavent verses, such as those in the Levitical law, or try to attribute homosexuality to Sodom, the facts of Scripture rebut all homophobic interpretation (and I would be more than willing to prove that tyo you in a further discussion).
God's Law allows heterosexual sex in both humans and animals, with the only exception being that humans, because they are made in God's image, must be monogomously married for life in order to have sex.
You seem to think that this is not the same case for homosexuality, and you would again be wrong.
God's Law allows homosexual sex in both humans and animals, with the only exception being that humans, because they are made in God's image, must be monogomously married for life to have sex. It isn't the SEX that is legal or illegal, it is the presence of a covenant or lack of a covenant that makes all things legal or illegal.
You assert by your arguement that God permits heterosexuality in Man and animals, but that God is biased with homosexuality, forbidding it in Man and permitting it to animals. The Bible contradicts this view.
It is only your personal dislike for the same gender that makes you think that homosexuality is wrong. And that's as illogical as saying, "I do not like chocolate cake and will not eat it, so therefore it is wrong for anyone else to like chocolate cake, and if they eat it they have sinned."
You also made the outrageous comment that, "Until you have a behavior that occurs more often than not, it's still abnormal behavior." REALLY??!!!! So then you are saying that left-handed people are abnormal? that it is abnormal behavior for them to use their left hand because their behavior does not occur more often than not? Majority most certainly is not a qualifier for truth! Your agument is the same one used by Hitler's white supremacy doctrine and the American South's pro-slavery doctrine.
-Rev. Jim Cunningham
King James Bible Ministries
GayChristianSurvivors.com