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Post by Rev. Jim Cunningham on Nov 19, 2008 1:17:02 GMT -5
From: exgay (Original Message) Sent: 12/29/2002 11:12 PM
i was just reading your commentary on the levitical law and the relationship between david and johnathan and it seems you have contradicted yourself in one way you twist scripture to mean that the levitical law is about fornication and that heterosexual men aren't supposed to lie with men for gratification but wouldn't that be true in there case. Not to mention they both took wives so not only are you reading into scripture what you want you are also calling both adulterers and fornicators and divorcees. David and johnathan were like minded and had the same heart for the lord. I have had one true gay friend and we were exactly that way, but never slept together until 18 years later and it destroyed our friendship.
There are too many things that you want to see and not enough text to back up what you say. I have to tell you that since i gave up the gay lifestyle and started honoring God with my mind , body, and soul i have never felt more complete and joyful in my life. Please let god do the work of inner healing that must take place. To truly desire a woman would have seemed like the craziest thing in the world to me and one time, but now i pray that God will give me a wife to cmpliment my life and make me complete as a man.
I am not confused or on the fence i was into the lifestyle as far as anyone can get and i only found lonliness and emptyness, I have been celabate for almost 2 years and it has been 2 years of growth and frustration and joy and temptation, but i am willing to go the distance if necessary because i will not trade Jesus for any thing.
god bless
hare
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Post by Rev. Jim Cunningham on Nov 19, 2008 1:17:11 GMT -5
From: Manager Rev. Jim Sent: 12/30/2002 4:27 PM
Exgay,
First, Your comment on my article about David & Jonathan tells me that you did not read the whole thing, or else you refused to believe clear Scripture. At the least, you flat out ignored my answers in that article which respond to the coments you have made. You are assuming that David and Jonathan were heterosexual simply because they married women. The fact is, David and Jonathan entered their covenant with each other BEFORE either of them joined with a female. Furthermore, they remained in that covenant after they were married to other women AND they married MULTIPLE women with God's permission. So by your reasoning, it was okay to marry several women but not each other ALSO. It is not I, but YOU, who have ditorted Scripture. Dave and Jon were married FIRST. The females came later. If they did commit any fornication and adultery, it was against each other, since they were already bound to one another when they married women. Please read my article again, and this time, please actually read what it says.
Second, You presume that because I am homosexual and you claim to no longer be, that therefore I do not honor God and you do. In fact, that is exactly what you said. I will ignore your self-righteousness and just tell you that I have a deep walk with the Lord and I am filled with His Spirit. Therefore, if I am out of His will then He has sworn by His Word to chastise and correct those He loves, so I will wait for His Word of correction and when and if it come I will obey. I WONT, however, give into self loathing people like you.
In Jesus,
Rev. Jim, Manager, Gay Christian Survival Group
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Post by Rev. Jim Cunningham on Nov 19, 2008 1:17:58 GMT -5
From: neilinphilly Sent: 12/31/2002 10:32 AM
Manager Rev. Jim,
If homosexuality is permitted or ordained by God, then He hasn't been fair to those of us who struggle with same sex attaction. A man an woman has the promise and hope of creating children as a result, just more evidence that only marriage of man and woman is God's will for us.
Like Exgay pointed out, David and Jonathan had a pure relationship as they both had a heart after God. I read your article before. If your interpretation of scripture is accurate, then you need to interpret all scripture for the church.
"If" David "exceeded," it doesn't mean it was God's will. Scripture records murder, adultery, prostitution, lying, etc., but that doesn't mean that it was God's will. Both Jonathan and David were married, and Jesus tells us in the Gospels that what God has bought together, let no man put asunder. Jonathan and David were already bound to their wives, so for scripture to ordain a homosexual relationship between the two, would contradict other scripture.
Scripture interprets scripture. God is the final authority.
You ever notice in this group and other gay "Christian" groups, most of the postings are about debate because no one individual interpretation is the same? Interpretation has to be at the corporate level, not the individual level. If it was individual, then we could just rip out the scriptures that we disagree with.
NeilInPhilly
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Post by Rev. Jim Cunningham on Nov 19, 2008 1:18:11 GMT -5
From: Manager Rev. Jim Sent: 1/1/2003 3:42 AM
Ok, look, I'm sorry but I'm afraid that I must be very blunt here.
This is a pro-gay group. I have already stated VERY CLEARLY what I believe the Bible says about homosexuality. Now, if you are not pro gay, this group is NOT FOR YOU. There are plenty of other groups for self-persecuters and self-loathers and ex-gays. THIS IS NOT ONE OF THEM. If you continue posting anti-gay posts I will have to ask you to leave, and if you do not leave I will have to ban you. i dont like banning anyone, but even if half the people in the group decided to quit their membership, I know that I have been there to help those who are really looking for the truth and I will continue to do so with or without anyone's support. I'm not in a popularity contest here. I'm not trying to get as many people as possible into my group. Being a homosexual is NOT a sin, no matter how many times you say that it is, so you might as well stop saying it here. In fact, I'm TELLING you to stop saying it here, please. Thank you.
- Rev. Jim
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Post by Rev. Jim Cunningham on Nov 19, 2008 1:18:31 GMT -5
From: JoeBearly Sent: 1/1/2003 6:33 AM
Jim,
I can certainly understand your stance on this. The main reason I joined this group is because I too feel it is not a sin to be actively gay AND a Christian.
As I stated in my introductory letter to the group. I was a baptist pastor for almost 15 years, married to a woman, and very unhappy. The constant struggle between what I was feeling inside and what I had been taught was right was killing me. When I finally reached the point that I felt I could no longer live the lie I was living, I left everything...my wife, my kids, my church, my faith and my God.
One thing that never stopped was the feeling that God stilled loved me...in spite of myself! I know in my heart that if it were wrong for me to be in a homosexual relationship that God would convict me of this and withdraw His Spirit from me. This has not happened.
I thank God for the church He brought me and my hubby to, and I thank Him for the wonderful groups He has led me to here on MSN. I have found support, love, acceptance, and a place to help out now and then.
Russ
aka JoeBearly
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Post by Rev. Jim Cunningham on Nov 19, 2008 1:19:11 GMT -5
From: platonicnice Sent: 9/28/2003 4:24 AM
so it is true that a christian cannot lead a gay life.
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Post by Rev. Jim Cunningham on Nov 19, 2008 1:19:42 GMT -5
From: LARob7 Sent: 9/28/2003 5:55 AM
I truly believe with all my heart that the story given to us about David and Jonathan is indeed one of the most beautiful love stories that was ever written in the Bible.
I pray that whoever the Lord sends in my life someday--that we will have that special love an bond that David and Jonathan had.
Rob
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Post by Rev. Jim Cunningham on Nov 19, 2008 1:19:49 GMT -5
From: Cantor Sent: 9/28/2003 7:37 AM
Is true that a christian cannot lead a gay life?
Well, I've been "gay" all my life, but I think you are asking if it's O.K. to be sexually intimate with someone of the same sex.
Any sexual activity outside of marriage is considered "fornication" in the bible. This is where Sodom and Gamorah is mentioned in the bible. Indescriminate sex for a means of pleasure should always be seen as "hedonistic" and self-gratifying. The deadly seven sins apply to everyone, whether they are gay or not.
The real question is, "can two people of the same sex be 'married' in God's eyes?". We know for a fact, that the early church did edit the bible to the books it contains today, because only the "Christocentric" readings were included, i.e. Old Testement stories pointing to Jesus' salvation being promised, and the New Testement revealing that salvation. The Apocratha, still used in the Roman church, contains some of these "missing" books. Whether or not things discussing gay unions were "edited" out of the bible is unknown. We know that sex with animals, relatives, multiple wives, adultery, and "unnatural" acts between people of the same sex were all lumped into the catagory of "deviant", but on the other hand, agape, unconditional, and sacrificial love between people of the same sex is never frowned upon.
I've been married to a woman, and I have a wonderful man in my life now, and I can tell you that the relationships are not comparable, although some of their personality traits are similar. What I need in a relationship from a man is much deeper than sexual, and when I only had my wife in my life, that missing need was stronger than a desire to have "sex" with men. It's difficult to explain, but our relationship is a blend between: brother, father, best-friend, and husband. I feel very comfortable and "myself" now.
I think that contentment is a more constructive emotional state to be in than depression and guilt. Therefore, yes, I think we can "lead CHRIST-CENTERED gay lives".
Cantor.
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Post by Rev. Jim Cunningham on Nov 19, 2008 1:20:20 GMT -5
From: jan Sent: 9/28/2003 4:36 PM
how did u come to THAT conclusion??
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Post by Rev. Jim Cunningham on Nov 19, 2008 1:20:57 GMT -5
From: platonicnice Sent: 9/28/2003 10:01 PM
is homosexual actions a natural one? this is the conclusion. it is a
perverted one.
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Post by Rev. Jim Cunningham on Nov 19, 2008 1:21:07 GMT -5
From: Manager Rev. Jim Sent: 9/30/2003 8:21 PM
PlatonicNice,
While I respect your opinion concerning homosexuality, it is nevertheless unacceptable here. I have proven by the Scriptures that homosexuality is not a sin. If you believe that being homosexual is a sin, then this group is not for you. I will kindly ask you to keep your anti-gay bias to yourself, please.
Rev. Jim
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Post by Rev. Jim Cunningham on Nov 19, 2008 1:21:27 GMT -5
From: LARob7 Sent: 9/30/2003 9:05 PM
I appreciate u sharing this point, Rev. Jim. This is not an ex-gay ministry. This is a ministry for those who are Christian and gay. Those who believe otherwise need to go elsewhere if this isn't for them. And those who choose to stay need to keep their anti-gay bias to themselves. Thank you.
Rob
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